Anyone heard of the "Freeman movement"?

[pezar]

I saw the following post on a survivalist board recently:

I live in St Augustine whent to feed the hungry tonight . I do this every two weeks there was 90 to 100 people. Myself and my wife and 15yr duoghter and 9yr son. The thing is we see more kids and people that live in there cars. Most of the people are good yes you have the drunks and the drug addicts. But tonight we had what they call them self Freeman's.they were in there 20s and so filthy not dirty filty is this what is are young people are coming to. And yes I worked on The streets so seeing all types of people but never the Freeman's they are like the new hippies.
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This is the first I've heard of this. I've never heard of these "Freemans" before, has anybody else? It sounds like something that would be inspired by ITW. Every time a great empire collapses, there seem to be groups of people who reject the failing society to become wanderers or off the grid rebels. Weimar Germany had Wanderfolken, post-Soviet Russia had hippie types, Japan has the Hikkikomori, and now it's come to the USA. Somebody on another forum said that the same thing happened in Rome before its collapse. Put another way, Chris was ahead of his time. But really, does this sound familiar to anybody?

[Wedelen64]

I have not heard of "Freeman movement" but when you mentioned St Augustine I perked right up because I am 20 miles from there. I do know of the type of "people" the author talks about. These people are the ones you don't see walking around begging. Instead of running away from home they run away from society because when they become adults there is nothing out there for them. No jobs, no prospects and no hope. I do wonder, Pezar, if they planned this life or they had no choice and they embrace it. Perhaps you are right and this is the result of a struggling empire. I will add that these people are living a type of life decsribed by ITW but also some shades if Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". I will do some research on this and see what I can come up with.

[Wedelen64]

So far everything I am finding says this movement is based in Great Britain. But I did find this explanation of their beliefs from Travis Barton of the Denver Examiner:

{In short, the Freemen believe that The United States (along with several other countries) is operating under Admiralty/Maritime Law (which is used for Shipping, Banks and Corporations) as opposed to Civil Law (which is used for our countries’ citizens). The apparent proof that they claim to have of this, is the corporate status of the United States (more on that later) the gold fringe on our American Flag and the pseudo-legal definition of a person all somehow put our country under admiralty jurisdiction.

Another misconception is that Common Laws are the only real laws that Freemen have to obey. They are convinced that statutes are not laws and therefore, do not need to be obeyed.

The theory, in a nutshell, suggests that we are owned and operated as a bankrupt nation; by the IMF and that our income taxes are (not only unconstitutional) actually paying tribute to the Queen of England. Furthermore, they believe that our birth certificates render us as property of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. because any legal document with your name in all capital letters (i.e.: JOHN DOE) represents a loss of personal liberty and submission to another’s will.

The theory claims that your name in all capital letters represents a “corporation” (aka legal person), whereas your name in lower case lettering represents a “natural person” (you). One of the arguments a freeman will tell you is that you are not a person, but you have a person, or more specifically you have a corporation. This is partially true, but we’ll explain how this is misinterpreted in the second half.

Essentially, they believe that if you agree to allow your birth certificate to represent you (which contains your name in all capital letters) then you agree to forfeiting your constitutional rights and therefore have willingly accepting the status of a corporation, which (again, according to the theory) reduces your rights to that of a debt slave.



Continue reading on Examiner.com The Freeman on the Land myth: Debunked - Denver skepticism | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/skepticism-in-denver/the-freeman-on-the-land-myth-debunked#ixzz1n2HZx500.}

It goes on and on so to be brief I cut if off.

[Wedelen64]

The Freeman movement sounds like an old movement that is ressurrected when a certain aspect of society feels they are left out of the big money pie or they feel the government is corrupt and they form a community to live "free". I agree with some of their beliefs but it is not a new movement. Look up "The Montana Freemen" and you will see a famous incident not unlike Waco, TX. I do hope I am wrong and there is a "new" movement. I will continue to research. I found a youtube video of Canadian Freeman Robert Menard that I will try to watch later.

[pezar]

Wedelen, what you are describing is what is called in the US the Sovereign Citizens. Sometimes they use the name Freemen, but the OP description didn't sound like them. Sovereign Citizens aren't homeless, they don't wander, they usually operate their own businesses that run on cash or silver/gold so as to avoid income taxes. SC's tend to look and live like other Americans, not vagabonds.

The OP sounded like he was describing what is called the Rainbow Gathering or Rainbow Families, groups of gypsy-like wanderers who camp in rundown RVs or tents, beg for food or steal it, don't bathe or change clothes, stuff like that. The Rainbows have been around since the 60s, and have recently had renewed interest in their lifestyle, maybe partially due to Chris.

The thing is, Rainbows are very violent and steal each other's food and belongings, and they get into fights with each other and with non-Rainbows, and as I said they steal and beat store clerks in order to steal, bathe naked in public fountains, etc. From the descriptions I've read they have a total lack of morals, something that would have horrified Chris. In England they're called Travellers. Somebody gave the website welcomehome.com for Rainbow Families, but I haven't checked it out yet.

I've noticed that the Occupy movement is increasingly composed of youth who see no future and thus have rejected society. They are demanding the overthrow of American materialistic ways and a new anarchy-based civilization. Some of them have turned to violence, which I disagree with, and also I disagree with trying to force other people to abandon materialism, although people are increasingly doing so of their own volition, which is great, it's just the notion that people need to be robbed of their possessions by force that I hate. Maybe this is just a case of two different groups adopting the same name for themselves.

[Wedelen64]

Pezar, you are correct. I do know about the rainbow gatherings. There is a "local" gathering going on right now in Ocala National forest, Florida. I think it ends next weekend. I was down there camping last weekend but I chickened out on going to the gathering. I have some anxiety when it comes to crowds but I should have gone because I'm sure there are people there with skills I need to learn.This is their Florida based website: http://flrainbow.org/Ocala/.I copied this from their national website :http://www.welcomehere.org/?Rainbow_Family_Gatherings:Annual%26nbsp%3BRainbow_Gatherings "The 2012 Annual Rainbow Gathering will be celebrated somewhere in either Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia or New Hampshire." On the Florida and national based website it gives the rules for the gatherings. Everything is communal. All decisions are by consensus and they want everyone camped together so they can prevent the opportunistic thieves that can infiltrate the gathering. It sounds great on their website but you wonder how it is going to be when you get there. Had I know we would be having this conversation it may have motivated me to break thru my insecurities and see what it is about. I could have seen for myself if the negatives are true or false. Instead I learned nothing and wasted my time. I do wonder, if the gatherings are so bad then why are they allowed to happen? Is this a mobile version of "slab city"? Are they getting a bad rap because of a few individuals actions like the Juggalo's (Insane Clown Posse fans)? There is good and bad in everything. How good is the gathering vs how bad?
Looks like the gathering is still going on this weekend. I may try to get down there. We shall see.

[pezar]

Wedelen, there's a post on survivalistboards.com about these people, search that board for "Rainbow Gatherings". The Rainbow website is welcomehere.org, I had it wrong. The people who visited the gathering in Ocala from Survivalist Board weren't too impressed, they said that people had tales of getting robbed and beaten, and of general fighting. Somebody else said that when a Rainbow Family came through their town in 2004, they robbed Wal Mart, begged, stole stuff, dumped untreated human waste in the park, etc. They seem to be filthy and do plenty of dope. They seem to be different from tramps, tramps like Chris and Jan Burres seem more willing to work. I'm surprised that they don't know that mixing human waste with wood chips or peat moss will neutralize the waste, I wonder what else they don't know.

[pezar]

I have not heard of "Freeman movement" but when you mentioned St Augustine I perked right up because I am 20 miles from there. I do know of the type of "people" the author talks about. These people are the ones you don't see walking around begging. Instead of running away from home they run away from society because when they become adults there is nothing out there for them. No jobs, no prospects and no hope. I do wonder, Pezar, if they planned this life or they had no choice and they embrace it. Perhaps you are right and this is the result of a struggling empire. I will add that these people are living a type of life decsribed by ITW but also some shades if Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". I will do some research on this and see what I can come up with.

I know that many are veterans, something like 75% of Iraq and Afghanistan vets have PTSD, and have no way of integrating back into society. Such people usually end up on the streets, abandoned by their families. Shrubby's wars of choice have taken a terrible toll on America. Osama said he bankrupted the USSR, and he would bankrupt the USA too, and he did. Not bad for 19 guys with box cutters. The Travellers popped up in England when the British Empire collapsed. England also has Chavs, alienated youth who live off welfare and who steal for a living, and who beat people to death at random. Before Albania collapsed, it had the same thing, and it's starting to appear here too with "flash mobs". Massive numbers of alienated youth seem to be a symptom of a collapsing empire. I know my generation, the Xers, bought into the whole materialistic BS, there were slackers but everybody wanted a piece of the dot.com and real estate bubbles, but the "wealth" was an illusion. The Millenials seem to be much clearer that there's no future for them. Xers were left with piles of debt, pretty toys, and big houses worth 60% less than the mortgages.

[Wedelen64]

Well, I might have to stay away from that element. I was hoping maybe to learn something from them but they don't seem to have anything I need. I don't judge them because from what I am reading it's not all good nor is it all bad but just not the element I was hoping for.
Pezar, from what you described it sounds like there is a "gypsy" element. There is no doubt that there are some strange "happenings" going on there.

[Wedelen64]

Wedelen, there's a post on survivalistboards.com about these people, search that board for "Rainbow Gatherings". The Rainbow website is welcomehere.org, I had it wrong. The people who visited the gathering in Ocala from Survivalist Board weren't too impressed, they said that people had tales of getting robbed and beaten, and of general fighting. Somebody else said that when a Rainbow Family came through their town in 2004, they robbed Wal Mart, begged, stole stuff, dumped untreated human waste in the park, etc. They seem to be filthy and do plenty of dope. They seem to be different from tramps, tramps like Chris and Jan Burres seem more willing to work. I'm surprised that they don't know that mixing human waste with wood chips or peat moss will neutralize the waste, I wonder what else they don't know.

Well, I might have to stay away from that element. I was hoping maybe to learn something from them but they don't seem to have anything I need. I don't judge them because from what I am reading it's not all good nor is it all bad but just not the element I was hoping for.
Pezar, from what you described it sounds like there is a "gypsy" element. There is no doubt that there are some strange "happenings" going on there.