McCandless and Treadwell thoughts ...

[Teemo]

Hello All,

I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I've been combing the forum this morning and reading previous posts. Thanks for the site. I found many of the posts provocative and thoughtful, and it has challenged me to think of things I hadn't considered, both about McCandless' (what is the plural form of McCandless?) life and my own life.

I became interested in CM's story after reading the news reports in the 90's and then reading Krakeur's book after it came out. I've watched Penn's film a few times over the past couple years. I just watched Ron Lamothe's 'The Call of The Wild' a few days ago which revived my interest in CM's life and story. I have thoughts on both films, and other points \ questions they raise, but that is another topic.

Last night I watched Herzog's 'Grizzly Man'. In reading reviews of Herzog's film, several people commented and compared Treadwell's story to McCandless'. While watching Herzog's film I did think of Chris, mainly because it just reminded me of Chris's adventure in Alaska. I lay in bed thinking about many aspects of that comparison last night.

I am not interested in testing myself by living off of the land. I did have that dream at one time and sincerely respect it. I've had my own trials in the bush and learned to respect it, but I'm more of a weekend hiker these days. I grew up in Northern Canada. I do know that people test their limits and learn about themselves in many, many ways. I spent a couple years working with severely disabled special needs kids and yes, it was an adventure of sorts! So my interest in McCandless comes from a perspective of trying to understand human nature. My background is in sociology \ psych.

Regarding the comparison of McCandless and Treadwell, the obvious facts are that both ventured off into Alaska, tested themselves in different ways (although this was not their only motives), and ended up dying from their experiences, or perhaps inexperience. Both garnered wider public interest because of their deaths, and the documentaries\ films made about their lives. Both had their own strong ideals and attempted to live them - that garners my respect. Remember that Gandhi was influenced by Thoreau and Tolstoy (mainly 'The Kingdom of God Is Within You'), as well as others like John Ruskin's 'Unto This Last' and the poet Shrimad Rajchandra, yet he chose a much different path, in a much different time \ location \ circumstance. I mention this to point out that the influence of an ideal can manifest in many ways, not in any way to make sweeping generalized comparisons of Gandhi to McCandless or Treadwell .

But the character of Treadwell and McCandless differs greatly. My read is that McCandless rejected public attention and was mostly a shy young man. This was one of the reasons why he chose Alaska. Treadwell appeared a self-aggrandizing, contrived show-boater. While I don't doubt that he loved the bears in his own rather immature and childish (not childlike) quirky way, he comes off as an opportunist, and actually exploits the bears in the midst of his own confused ideals. Both things are true: he cared \ was concerned and he was exploitative for personal gain - that of making a name for himself, which he had been trying to do since his failed attempts in Hollywood. You could say that both demonstrated a hubris that cost them their lives. In a strange way I also respect that. I respect it because I've made that mistake and still do at times. It's never cost me my life, but eventually, after many years of isolation, it taught me that I can have an ideal, and still make compromises in my life that do not compromise what I value. (I have my own variation of the reasons why McCandless died - a variation of the ideas that are mostly covered in this forum with a few points added).

If Chris had survived his ordeal what would he think of it today, now a 43 year old man? I think Chris would have grown from the experience, whatever he decided to do next, living in the wilderness or not. If Treadwell had survived his bear attack what would he think today? I get the sense that he wouldn't have learned much about himself. My read is that he would probably have continued to blame others for his life's disappointments. I agree with others that Treadwell was probably suffering from some mental illness and, at the very least, lacked honesty with himself. He's contradictory for a man with strong ideals, but you see it with so many who choose to live large. What did Whitman say? "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes".

Herzog makes this comment late in 'Grizzly Man': "It is clear to me that the park service is not Treadwell's real enemy. There is a larger more implacable adversary out there, the people's world and civilization". I thought about that last night and I think this is only partly true. Treadwell's greatest enemy was himself. McCandless indicates near the end of his life that he had learned some things about himself, and his own folly, albeit too late to save himself. Although he had chosen to reject society, I don't see him making an enemy of society. He was trying to make friends with himself. But then again, maybe I'm wrong ... I am large, I contain multitudes.

I would be very interested in hearing others comments. Contradictory ones very welcome.

An interesting aside: There was a strangely eery, near coincidental thing I picked up on, while watching Herzog's film. McCandless died in bus 142. Treadwell was killed by a bear tagged as # 141. Note to self: If I ever choose a campsite in Alaska it will not be anything labeled # 140.

Respect,
Teemo

[SteveSalmon]

~SS

[bobenns]

Welcome Teemo.

I don't see much in common either other than the obvious and oversimplified, Alaska/wilderness/death. However it seems enough for a lot of people to consider them practically the same.
I'm not impressed with Treadwell at all, he could have just as well died in an alley with a needle in his arm. No sympathy here.

McCandless is a different sort of icon, idealist, purist, eccentric ,, to thine own self be true... poetic and tragic and stimulating the youthful idealism in all of us.

At his age I had a mind to do similar things but was too busy getting stoned and drunk and laid. I searched for myself all over the west coast too, but never to his extreme and mostly found myself with terrible hangovers and/or in young women's beds. The party was on.

I admire him and mourn him and wish he'd found his way out of it. But if he had made it back, none of us would know anything about him.

I like to think that he sacrificed so we would learn something about contemplating how precious this life we have really is.

Did I steal your line Steve? Its just what first came to mind.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/48822194

[SteveSalmon]

~SS

[bobenns]

Ouch Bob. Without a lil happy face ( ) at the end of it, that comment makes you look cranky.
Check this out.
http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/11212242/article-Alaska-State-Troopers-find-Singapore-man-safe-near-‘Into-The-Wild’-bus?

Sorry Steve, not cranky. I know its sometimes hard to interpret the tone of what people post. Me, I'm always happy, he,he,he

Anyway don't ever think I'm flipping you off, cause I wouldn't do that.

Good comments on that article Steve.

I tried to rescue a gentleman on my street today. I saw him walking along and decided he needed to rescued. I was certain he didn't know where he was and I insisted that I had to take him back to the corner where he started. After he threatened to call the cops I decided to let him remain lost in the wilds of Martin Ave.

[SteveSalmon]

~SS

[erikhalfacre]

I really enjoyed talking to Xing when I got ahold of him for the article on my page. I think the overreaction, and the 'rescue' though, are just evidence of the general opinion a lot of Alaskans hold about anyone trying to make the Trek, and about McCandless himself. They just think we're all misinformed and underprepared. I think Dermot Cole summed it up when he referred to me and the others in my group as 'unaware that we were risking our lives.' They just can't believe that a reasonable person with any amount of wilderness knowledge would want to 'glorify' McCandless by making a 'pilgramage' to the place where he died. It's really quite insulting.

We just need to prove that the vast majority of people making the trek aren't idiots. That's a large part of the reason I'm trying to make a list (with photos) of the people who have been to the bus, on my site. ( pathfinderalaska.com/stampedetrail/thelist.php ) Look at the people in these photos. They all made it there and back and were no significantly worse off for having done so (save blisters and sore muscles.) The more people on that list, the harder it is for someone to look at it and say "only idiots who want to die just like McCandless try that hike."

Anyway... keep tearing up those message boards. It's a battle of public opinion!

[ellisd]

I think Dermot Cole summed it up when he referred to me and the others in my group as 'unaware that we were risking our lives.' They just can't believe that a reasonable person with any amount of wilderness knowledge would want to 'glorify' McCandless by making a 'pilgramage' to the place where he died. It's really quite insulting.

Dermot Made an example of you and your hiking group? How/When did this happen?

[erikhalfacre]

He wrote a column about how he feels Penn and Krakauer should pool funds and pay for the removal of the bus. In it he embedded my friend Jeremy Egger's youtube video of me crossing the river after saying "Here are two videos on YouTube that shows people crossing the river and not recognizing the danger posed by the cold water and the speed of the river. You'll see that they don't understand they are risking their lives."

You can see it here: http://newsminer.com/bookmark/9174457

[bobenns]

I thought the video of you crossing the river was a very good example of how I've heard is the right way to do it.
I suppose if you had suddenly stepped into a deep hole and disappeared from sight he would have something to speculate about.
The stick gives that 3rd point for stability and makes a huge difference.
I wonder if Blockhead McDermutt has ever crossed a stream, other than in a vehicle on a bridge?
Sheesh