I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HERE.

Here you can discuss anything related to Christopher McCandless.
Tom Hron
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:11 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby Tom Hron » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:34 am

Oh, no, not another anonymous sissy, which is the last thing this country needs right now. Ppathways, you're wrong, a young man didn't die, a mentally ill person committed suicide, which was bound to happen with Chris. Please get a life and stop worshipping people who do everything wrong in life, like totally disrespecting their loving parents and loyal friends. McCandless was nothing more than born loser who wouldn't listen to anyone, and now, sadly, we're left with fools like you who are filled with sick admiration. What a waste.

BandMissionary
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby BandMissionary » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:24 pm

Tom I hope you come back and read this.. Most stupid men call others stupid because they cannot fathom what another man is thinking when a lot of life issues creep up and they cannot deal with it rationally. So what if Chris decided he needed a break from all that was going on in his life that was treacherous. He basically ran away to get away from all that. So for that a man is incompetent and deemed mentally ill. Maybe he was.. It is not proven that he was.. There are no forms or data to prove it! He was a stressed out young man who need a break from his life! A lot of people do that. Its not uncommon. In Alaska there are places you can get away from it all and not have to deal with the reality of everyday living. He graduated college before he left! He told his dad to go to hell in more ways then one that I saw and read. He had to take a mental break before he really did become unhinged. And he did try to leave! He did not factor in to account that when the snow melts the river will overflow and become unstable and to treacherous to cross in the spring! Sorry to me that would something you would like to know! And from all that I can gather your state of mind is not perfect when you are hungry like he was towards the end... And it was stressed out before he got there from his normal life! Until you lived a minute in a mans shoes don't go talking about what you think he is or isn't! He is not here to defend himself! I am sorry but I am pissed that you could even be such a obnoxious pig headed over bearing SOB!!! You are a over grown bully!! Now that said! Ron looking at the picture and from some small details his arm could have been injured from (if he tried to cross the river(full flowing)) falling and trying to regain himself. With the rapids going that fast and trying to pull yourself up and hold on at the same time it will do some damage. I know he went through a lot and I understand the frustration he felt to just get away for awhile. To become a man not ruled by his father. To find himself and that was the way he went about it! Little boy with his nosed pressed on the candy shop window! As said a thousand times before he was planning on coming home. He just did not plan on what all he was going to do to be prepared (worse case scenario). He did try and hopefully taught people a little more then just being brave! You also have to be prepared for whatever you think may not happen! I could list all the things he should have learned a little bit more about and not have been so hasty! he did have four years to study the terrain, weather and wild life! But him getting hurt and slowly declining in health because of malnutrition he could not make it home. He was a young man trying to figure what life was really like without the bear breathing down your neck. He wanted a little bit of freedom and space. And Peace!

fredmerlin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:12 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby fredmerlin » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:19 am

Well said BandMissionary. Every time I see mr.hron post, I feel the same way. WHY would anyone bother with stuff they despise? It's such a waste of time. Maybe he'll get a life sometime!

And, as far as your comment about Chris' injury. I think Mr. Lamothe is referring to the pic of Chris at the bus, right before he shaves to rejoin society. At that time, he was in full beard. IF he indeed had an injured arm, he did so BEFORE he tried to cross the swollen river.

BabeBubby
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby BabeBubby » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:39 pm

I must say I believe that very young man of only 24 must have had mental issuses. reading about him for hours & hours now (jeez cant believe I spent this much time on something like this), but nonetheless it was intriguing. also have to agree with Tom. not to mention the fact people have martyred this guy for doing something so stupid in the first place. I can see where some might be inspired by this man but there are better role models I'm sure! alas he must have his fans...a lot of people are fascinated with the dead. it just seems to me ID, money, library cards or not he had mental issues & in some way knew he wasnt leaving there alive. maybe he changed his mind but by that time it was too late for him. such a sad story really. he was so young.

DrListen
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:17 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby DrListen » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:27 am

Alaskans will call him an idiot. Fourteen year old girls would call him a hero. In fact, Chris was mentally ill. It is dangerous to romanticize him. Ladies check yourself.

greetasola
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:09 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby greetasola » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:47 am

Many of the debates on this forum embody the argument I have been having within myself since reading the stories about Chris and watching the movies. What really happened? Was he idealistic or unbalanced? Why can he not have been both? I am fascinated by his story, yet I find it tragic, especially having survived a similar period in my own life, of "tramping," to settle down, marry, have a steady job and children. I am no longer young, but at his age, I did very similar things: eschewed money, questioned current (at the time, 30 years ago and not so different honestly, though i have so much hope for the next generation to change things) social and moral values. I ran into the wilderness, literally and metaphorically, though I didn't move to Alaska I chose the West, nor did I ever try completely to live off the land, though I came close several times. I kept a journal, but I drew the line at photographs, believing strongly that they tied a single moment down forever, and I could never get behind that. Things were different for me, as young woman, and I had to be very careful and worry about wholly different things. I nearly escaped a kidnapper who very well seemed to have abducted women before. That is a story for another time. But in Chris/Alex's criticisms of our society, I understand, I think, in some part where he was coming from, and lived the same rebellion, as have some of my closest friends.

I do wonder about those last weeks, when Chris attempted to cross the river, and turned back; had a map but didn't pursue the tram or the other route that would have gotten him out. Number one, no doubt he was weak, and trust me even long before that level of starvation, you are not thinking very logically about "plan a" "plan b" and so forth. But I just spent time readng Carinne's letter on this website, and those of his other siblings. I, too, was raised in an abusive family environment, and it is impossible for me not to see the signs, in his final days, of something he seemed to have fought against during many of his pre-Alaskan adventures and conquering his fears through physical feats and psychological challenges: learned helplessness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

There are many better articles out there on the phenomena than the aforereferenced wikipedia article, but it often occurs in victims of domestic violence, and so much of what Chris fought for was control over his life. It may have been that in his weakened state, during the biggest most intensely physical challenge of his life things were not going so well, and injured or not, and he succumed to what many victims fall prey to, despair and a feeling that we are unable to rescue ourselves and restore or take control of the situation. There is a certain resignation, almost a giving up. That is the essence of learned helplessness. And it is lifetime battle for most of us raised in the kind of early life Chris had. It does not mean he was weak, or mentally ill, but it is a difficult legacy. And I would believe the "learned helplessness theory" long before I would consider autism as a factor in his ultimate death.

Anyway, it is a new theory, something to get you thinking again.

KylePyle
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:39 pm

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby KylePyle » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:07 pm

Is there any thoughts on Chris taking his ''Getting ready to Return" picture before he tried to leave, then injured himself on the way to the Teklanika River? When he arrived at the river with a fresh injury, realized there was no way for him to cross. Returning to the bus clean shaven, he ran into the food issues. Maybe a week or so later he took the "Aesthetic Voyager" picture. It would also be interesting to see the weight difference since Ive never seen the "Getting Ready to Return" photo. I've also read that all the research on Hedysarum alpinum, showed there is no toxins in the plant. I think he died from lathyrism caused by Oxalyldiaminopropionic acid which was not looked for in previous studies in Hedysarum alpinum they were too busy looking for alkaloid instead of the toxic protein that is relatively harmless to a well fed person, but deadly to anybody in Chris's position. Malnourished, stressed irregular diet. Combining the injury with the toxic protein in the seeds, I believe he was too weak to even make it .25 miles to the transport across the river even if he had known where it was. After all...he did have a map.

Cheerwine
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:47 pm

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby Cheerwine » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:20 am

Whether he was injured or not, he knew that death loomed because he wrote that in his notes and on the SOS sign. The thing that I cannot get past is if he wanted to get out and knew that if he didn't he would die, why didn't he simply start a fire? He had to know that if he did this, people would come to save him. He knew how far he was from civilization, and if the river or an injury or weakness prevented him from walking out, why didn't he signal for help? I know he loved nature and people will suggest that he may not have wanted to hurt the wild by setting fire to it, but he was killing animals and hurting nature with his mere presence there already. Fires are often healing events in the wild, and McCandless must have known that. I don't think he would have been worried about arson charges. I think he probably worried about what people would think of him.

Do you think that he was willing to give his life and die in such a horrible way because he was too ashamed to ask for help? Did he give his life so as not to end his trek into the wild in such a way? I wonder if he chose this fate because he didn't want to live with the shame of failing. Was he mentally disturbed, narcissus or did he go there thinking he would return, and when realized he couldn't, not on his own, he preferred to die there than to have to be rescued? He certainly had a lot of time to think about it.

I don't blame him. I don't blame him for going, and I don't blame him for choosing to die there. He had spent a lot of time and effort proving to himself that he could escape society and its wicked ways. It would have been the ultimate contradiction to have, in essence, had to be rescued from the wild and thus from himself. I don't think he went there to die, but I believe that he knew that he could not go back if not by his own two feet.

For all the Alaskans that think he was stupid, maybe he was, but he lived and died by his own creed, and that is more than many Alaskans have ever done because they don't live there out of a love for nature, most live there to kill and exploit nature and never take the time to consider Alaska as anything more than a resource.

arterbury
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:41 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby arterbury » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:45 am

I come back to this movie time and time again. I am at this stage of my life where I am having the same type of situation he is in. Everyone around me cares about material things but no one cares about love. I am often forgotten because my family and friends are more interested in doing things with each other or buying new things. I would give away everything I own to help a stranger. No one cares to think of me and call me or see me. I always have to reach out to them to get any sort of interaction. People use me then leave. When they need something they will come find me but once they have what they got, they leave.

Husky
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 6:04 am

Re: I AM INJURED, NEAR DEATH, AND TOO WEAK TO HIKE OUT OF HE

Postby Husky » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:52 pm

Cheerwine-- You ask- Why didn't he light a fire to start a rescue? He also could have written a big SOS on the white roof of the bus??

Yes, he could have built a big signal fire with all the driftwood on the river upstream from the bus. He wouldn't have had to light the whole area on fire to get attention. A smokey fire would have been noticed and reported by jets- they do that- and the bus area is in a high suppression zone so Alaska Fire Service or the Park's Ranger plane would have checked it out. But that would have meant an "official" rescue and investigation- something Chris may not have wanted given his apparent shame over the moose he'd killed. He described his dismay about wasting the moose in his "journal" entries as a "disaster" and one of the "greatest tragedies of my life". There was also the damage to the Park Service cabin which had been discovered in mid-July by a Ranger. Any "official" rescue would have led to questions about that vandalism. He had already been discovered breaking into a Park cabin in California to get food according to an article in the New Yorker by Chip Brown. So, maybe he wanted to get rescued but not face "official" questioning??

The most activity on Stampede back then came in the late summer when hunters would go out. Just like now they would park at 8 Mile and walk or ATV out the trail. A few hunters would use the bus every year as a base camp. They would write their names and the date on the bus wall along with how much game they had shot. In the 70's it was still open to caribou hunting in August, so some of that writing included dates in mid-August. Perhaps Chris read some of that dated graffiti and thus expected hunters to show up in mid-August and help him. Maybe he was expecting hunters to come and help him and thus he didn't think he needed to start an embarrassing "official" rescue. But with caribou hunting closed the first hunting opportunity would have been September 1 for moose. And with the high water even moose hunters were delayed until Sept 6- long after Chris had died...
Here we are in the years
Where the showman shifts the gears
Lives become careers
Children cry in fear
Let us out of here! Neal Young

Don't let fear stand in the way.
There's nothing to it
but to do it! Husky


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