IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

[bobenns]

In the documentary, there is a fair bit of time spent with Forsberg. He seems quite happy about being interviewed etc. He also shows a quite a bit of contempt for Chris. He strongly believes Chris ransacked the cabins. But I understand the food stored there was ruined, not taken. I think Chris would have taken the food to eat.

About the decomposition of the body. They may have assumed he died earlier based on the light weight, thinking it had lost a lot more water than it had. I think that generally as a body decomposes the mass decreases. So one clue as to how long would be weight compared to height etc. Also there could have been a number of very warm sunny days at the end of August and with the greenhouse effect it would get pretty warm in the bus. The two people who arrived at the bus first were repelled by the smell. Things happen quickly to corpses when its warm.

As far as people knowing he was there. That is a distinct possibility. He was around the area of the bus hunting and gathering I would say most of the daylight hours. I doubt he had a lot of leisure time to be just idly sitting around the bus waiting for the locals to stop in. So anyone who happened to come by may well have only found signs of someone being there but not seen Chris. Any local hunters and trappers that used the bus would be familiar with its contents and condition etc. They would realize someone was staying there who wasn't around just then. I can't imagine all the weeks he was at the bus that no one ever came along. Its not the north pole, its the Stampede Trail and if it wasn't used it wouldn't be a trail.

So one or two or more times people may have passed by, but didn't hang around to see who was living there. The other possibility is that someone may have seen Chris and decided to stay out of his line of sight for whatever reason. Maybe they didn't recognize him and weren't sure if they wanted to talk to him. Maybe they watched him performing a ritual on a porcupine and thought he was mad! Shrieking and waving the carcass in the air, whooping like a banshee. He probably looked hungry and crazy at first glance. Perhaps back in town chatting with others the topic came up about that guy out at the bus. Seems a bit strange, what do you think he's doing out there?

[GoNorth]

@Steve: Thanks for your kind words.

Such an encounter of someone else there too could likely have destroyed his idea of being alone in the wild?

As I said, I rather don’t think he really met anyone. But your question makes me think of something else: When he walked back towards the Teklanika river, he obviously intended to go back to “civilization”, so when he failed to cross the river and went back to the bus, he didn’t really want to be alone in the wild any more. There is also this note “lonely, scared” on the day he realized that he would not be able to cross the Tek. All that seems quite logical.
But then, upon arriving at the bus again, he read the book „Death of Ivan Ilyich“ by Tolstoy and wrote the following words somewhere in the book: „Civilization – Falsity – Big Lie“ (that’s not in the Krakauer book, but in the Chip Brown article). I always wondered what he meant by that.

He strongly believes Chris ransacked the cabins. But I understand the food stored there was ruined, not taken. I think Chris would have taken the food to eat.

If no food was taken, it's indeed rather unlikely that it was Chris. Otherwise I wouldn't necessarily exclude it, as during his 2 years journey he had already broken into a cabin with emergency food. But if they had really seriously wanted to know whether it was him or not, they could simply have checked the fingerprints.

About the decomposition of the body. They may have assumed he died earlier based on the light weight, thinking it had lost a lot more water than it had. I think that generally as a body decomposes the mass decreases. So one clue as to how long would be weight compared to height etc. Also there could have been a number of very warm sunny days at the end of August and with the greenhouse effect it would get pretty warm in the bus. The two people who arrived at the bus first were repelled by the smell. Things happen quickly to corpses when its warm.

Yes, that makes sense and probably that’s what happened. I just wondered if there might be anything wrong with his “journal” entries or their interpretation which led to the conclusion that he died on August 18.

As far as people knowing he was there. That is a distinct possibility. He was around the area of the bus hunting and gathering I would say most of the daylight hours. I doubt he had a lot of leisure time to be just idly sitting around the bus waiting for the locals to stop in. So anyone who happened to come by may well have only found signs of someone being there but not seen Chris. Any local hunters and trappers that used the bus would be familiar with its contents and condition etc. They would realize someone was staying there who wasn't around just then. I can't imagine all the weeks he was at the bus that no one ever came along. Its not the north pole, its the Stampede Trail and if it wasn't used it wouldn't be a trail.
So one or two or more times people may have passed by, but didn't hang around to see who was living there.

I think Krakauer wrote that this trail was rather used in spring than in summer, but for the rest: very good theory!

The other possibility is that someone may have seen Chris and decided to stay out of his line of sight for whatever reason. Maybe they didn't recognize him and weren't sure if they wanted to talk to him. Maybe they watched him performing a ritual on a porcupine and thought he was mad! Shrieking and waving the carcass in the air, whooping like a banshee. He probably looked hungry and crazy at first glance. Perhaps back in town chatting with others the topic came up about that guy out at the bus. Seems a bit strange, what do you think he's doing out there?

Yes, why not. However, if there had been more talking about him in Healy or wherever, someone would have told about it after McCandless had become “famous”, I guess.

@scooby: Good point also, that he would probably not have stayed so long without the bus. Or perhaps he would have gone further west instead of turning around at the Toklat river.

[ellisd]

Wow, i leave for 2 days and come back to see quite the attempt at making a mess of this thread, by Asctetic. I really don't know what his problem is with us is. but anywho, i want to say thanks to each person who contributes to this thread, and to those who understand what this thread is about.

[bobenns]

I can't imagine Chris being out there very long without finding some man made shelter. Remote trappers cabins are usually left unlocked, specifically because they will need to be broken into by someone who needs food and shelter. My experience with these things is they leave food there specifically because someone may come along who desperately needs it.

Now imagine that there were no shelters all along Chris's proposed route to the Bering Sea. How many days of being wet and cold would he have survived with his bag of rice. There was still plenty of snow on the ground and below freezing temperatures at night for sure. Pretty fricken miserable out there after one night. He spent two nights before arriving at the bus, and what a welcome find! Did he have a tent?

He probably would have died of exposure in a matter of days had he kept on his quest. I don't think he knew how to build a shelter to protect himself at night. You can sometimes find natural shelter in thick trees next to a rock bluff etc. But can't count on finding that every day. Plus the walking is difficult and you get sweaty and tired, then catch a chill when you stop. People wear special fabrics to keep warm but to carry away the moisture. Then you get good and wet sometimes. It rains and snows, you fall in a creek or muskeg hole. Its nasty the time of year he went out. Once you are all wet and tired and played out, how do you get dry and warm out there without shelter? You die of exposure.

Had he not found the bus he might have found a cabin and stayed there a bit. But that's somebody's cabin. I'm sure he would feel obliged to move on after a day or two. Even the bus could be somebodies personal hunt camp.

[GoNorth]

Did he have a tent?

Yes, he did. Of course. Otherwise how would he have camped all the rest of the time (first days + the 3 weeks to the Toklat river and back)?
But still I agree that he would probably not have liked it so much for so long out there without the bus. I just think that his decision to turn around at the Toklat river might have been influenced by the fact that he knew how nice it had been at the bus. Without the bus he would possibly have gone further and then maybe gone into another direction, done something else and then... he would perhaps have died from something else or on the contrary found his way back out of the wild in time. Nobody will ever know.

[bobenns]

Did he have a tent?

Yes, he did. Of course. Otherwise how would he have camped all the rest of the time (first days + the 3 weeks to the Toklat river and back)?
But still I agree that he would probably not have liked it so much for so long out there without the bus. I just think that his decision to turn around at the Toklat river might have been influenced by the fact that he knew how nice it had been at the bus. Without the bus he would possibly have gone further and then maybe gone into another direction, done something else and then... he would perhaps have died from something else or on the contrary found his way back out of the wild in time. Nobody will ever know.

I just didn't recall anything about a tent in Alasksa. A tent helps a bit. But if you are soaking wet and its cold out, look out. Hypothermia takes a lot of people. Its a very tough go in a place like that equipped the way he was. it is surprising he lasted as long as he did. The bus really was "magic" for him.

His bones would be scattered out there somewhere if he'd kept going.

I recall a story about a fisherman whos boat went down off of Prince Rupert. He got to an island and nearly died of hypothermia, but someone spotted him standing virtually frozen on a spit. He was unable to move when they got to him, but he survived. He knew his only chance was if someone spotted him, so instead of taking shelter under trees he stood out in the open where he might be seen.

Another killer is shock. People get an large injury, like from a bad fall, broken leg and they seem alright but die of shock overnight. Thats happened to a few.

[ellisd]

Did he have a tent?

after checking my copy og into the wild, [paperback version after the movie came out], on page 176 Krakauer writes "Sitting downon a steel cot across from the stove to mull over this eerie tableau, I encounter McCandless's presence wherever my vision rests. Here are his toenail clippers, over there his green nylon tent spread over a missing window in the front door."

your tent question had me thinking aswell, as i thought i saw a picture of his tent somewhere on the internet, but wasn't to sure.

[GoNorth]

I just didn't recall anything about a tent in Alasksa.

And that made you believe he could have left into the wild without one? No, of course he didn't. I mean, that guy was quite special, but not completely nuts, nor suicidal.
But I checked and for the Alaska part of the journey, the tent has not been mentioned a lot indeed (by Krakauer or Brown), however I found it twice: once he put it up near the Parks Highway for the last night before he left for the Stampede trail, and Chip Brown mentioned that he went on with his tent towards the Toklat river.
And I also stumbled across this part that ellisd just quoted.
(by the way, searching inside the book is possible here: http://www.99chan.in/lit/src/Into_The_Wild-_John_Krakauer.pdf)

[ellisd]

@GoNorth- nice link, thanks for sharing that one. now, not to get off subject, i wonder what other belongings he had that are still at the buss. i'm sure someone took his gold molar crown, if it was left there. also heard someone took his boots and left a ratty pair in its place. i think i might make a list of his stuff reported to "still be there" or the things that were "left behind" to see what in fact has been stolen/taken/vandalized and what is really still there. that is, when I make my trek to the bus.

[GoNorth]

@ellisd: Some time ago I stumbled across this article including some pictures taken in the bus in 1993: http://packrafting.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html
I suppose that most of these things are not there any longer.