Was Chris autistic?

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pezar
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 3:41 pm

Was Chris autistic?

Postby pezar » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:18 pm

Here's one angle to the CM story that a lot of people may not have considered, but some people who are familiar with autism, including some who have the disorder, think that Chris was mildly autistic. There are several areas that make me think so, as related to known symptoms and my personal experience as an autistic male.

1) Sensory issues. The assistant manager of McD's in Bullhead City noted that Chris HATED to wear socks. He would strip them off as soon as he got off work. Also, he apparently had poor hygiene, as noted by the fact that he came to work stinky, and he apparently distended his teeth to the point where a dental crown came off when he was in Alaska. Autistics have TONS of issues with senses, and especially touch. Many of us HATE the feeling of water on our skin, and thus bathe infrequently. I know that I have to literally force myself to get in the shower, and if I don't have a good reason to I won't. When I was little I hated to wear socks and shoes, and even today I don't wear shoes in my house.

2) Lack of "normal" relationships. Autistics have problems socializing, and many have a hard time with romance or friendship. Chris never had a romantic relationship, which is odd for a teen/young adult, and had few close friends. He had a couple female friends, but he never tried to take those platonic friendships to a romantic/sexual level. This again is common among autistics-many have a low sex drive.

3) Attraction to wandering/tramp lifestyle. Even as little toddlers, autistics will jump from windows and wander away. Chris apparently did this too. My parents had to put in fencing to keep me in one place. On forums for autistics, the subject of being a wanderer comes up often.

4) High moral standards. Autistics do NOT compromise their morals. They can't be "bought" or distracted. Chris had such high moral standards that he found his parents lacking, and cut them off, which is extreme but in line with what some autistics will do.

5) Unique viewpoints. Autistics often have views on things that many consider odd. Chris was so hard to pin down that not even Jon Krakauer could do it.

There's a lot more, including the "eccentric" maternal grandfather-I had one too. The fact that the female child shows no symptoms-autistics are 80% male. I really think Chris had autism, but died before a diagnosis was formulated for it (DSM-IV, 1994).

naturelover24
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Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby naturelover24 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:27 pm

NO! haha i just think he was an idealistic, non-conforming man. a true man indeed.

ellisd
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Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby ellisd » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:56 pm

I'm gonna have to disagree on this one, having a autistic family member myself, i can see what your trying to say. But, your generalizing the autisic populous too much I think. the symptoms your named off are true, but not in the sence where ALL men/and - or/women who have autism have these symptoms. i have been in programs and class rooms with dozens of people affected with autism, and i can honestly say not one of them are alike, a few may share some common symptons but thats about as far as it goes. and i really don't think CM had autism, he had a strong mind set on his own personal feelings and views of the world and himself. im not trying to sound like a know it all or anything like that, just stating my opinion and trying not to offend anyone.

bobenns
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:21 am

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby bobenns » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:22 am

Pezar.
These are very interesting observations indeed. Chris was definitely an "odd ball". Very intelligent, but odd. Charming, but odd. Unique, but odd. Something of a hermit at times. Definitely very self absorbed and prone to obsessive behaviors.
Many have suggested some form of mental illness to explain his demise. I think this theory fits better than mental illness.
We all suffer from our own issues and problems. Some of us, if we get far enough off center will be diagnosed and labeled. Chris was just unique enough to be considered eccentric, but not insane. This high performing autism is definitely one way to explain his characteristics and behaviors.
A lot of people who admire Chris simply won't consider for a moment that he had some kind of disorder. But who in their right mind willingly goes out in the bush to eat weeds until they die from starvation? Who? Only one that I know of.
Personally I like CM a lot. I love the guy, I love his adventurous spirit. I identify with it. I'm like him in many ways, been so all my life. But perishing the way he did, when there were alternatives readily available tells me he went off the edge and didn't make it back in time. Its happened to many brilliant people. Its sad and I don't respect him less. He was human, like me. He made mistakes, like me. He paid for his mistakes, like me. He just made one big one and couldn't find his way out of it.

You don't have to agree with this theory, but you can't write it off completely either.
Check out this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_on_the_autism_spectrum
to get an idea of how many brilliant people can have such a disorder. Many!
There is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life itself.

pezar
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby pezar » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:16 pm

Autism is frequently mistaken for schizophrenia by many people, and in fact used to be called "childhood schizophrenia" in the old days. A number of people have suggested that Chris was schizophrenic, but it doesn't fit-he never said anything about hearing voices. It's been suggested, also, that the founders of the world's great religions, such as Buddha and Jesus, were autistic. Who in their right mind gives up a life as a pampered prince (Buddha), a successful carpenter (Jesus), or a life as a privileged upper middle class person (Chris), to wander the earth, live among the destitute, in search of ultimate truth? Most "neurotypicals" simply can't comprehend actually DOING it, no matter how much they admire those who do. Autistics typically don't care about manipulating people in order to get a leg up, and in fact are utterly unable to do so. They don't care about being rich, or having stuff. They're more likely to contemplate the Big Questions, why does the universe exist, why am I here, that sort of thing. The thing with an autistic person is, their brain is wired differently from a NT. They're Macs in a Windows world, to use one well known metaphor. Why didn't Chris search for a place where he could cross the Teklanika safely? Maybe it simply didn't occur to him. An autistic sometimes can't see the most obvious solution unless it is pointed out to him.

bobenns
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:21 am

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby bobenns » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:29 am

pezar wrote: Why didn't Chris search for a place where he could cross the Teklanika safely? Maybe it simply didn't occur to him. An autistic sometimes can't see the most obvious solution unless it is pointed out to him.


That is one of the most puzzling things about Chris. Personally, I know at that point I would have found a way out of there. Sure he was pretty weak by then and had lost tremendous weight already. But he still survived quite a few more weeks. At that point my focus would have been on getting out.

That is a very good point Pezar. Almost anyone else would have tried harder to leave, some might perish in the river trying to cross. We know he could have walked out the other way and he had a map that he could have figured that out from.

He just accepted that he was staying. Not what you'd expect from an Ivy League honors student, or is it?
There is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life itself.

GoNorth
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby GoNorth » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:37 am

How could you know that he did not search for such a place? Perhaps he did. At least we know from his notes published in the book that he did not return to the bus on the very next day. So one could imagine that he spent some time searching for a better place before deciding to return back to the bus.
And Krakauer also wrote that considering the volume of the Tek at that time and in that area, returning to the bus (to come back later) was the only wise thing to do, because it would have been suicidal to try to cross the river at that place by then.
Perhaps he could have found a river crossing place if only he had walked far enough, but how could he know where to go, as he didn't have a map? Perhaps he walked a while and found the broken gauging station, perhaps he didn't.
Anyway, I think his reaction was rather normal, after he had realized what the river looked like. The first night in the tent it was raining and it must have been quite unpleasant to hang around there, hopelessly searching for a way to cross the river, while he knew that the comfort of the bus was just about a day's hike away. So why not go back and wait another few weeks for better conditions. Sounds very logical to me. But unfortunately he got so weak within the following few weeks that he didn't have the force to try again.

alba143
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:53 pm

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby alba143 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:05 am

How can any of you be sure what Chris was going through? Having read the book, seen the movie and read all of your observations, it seems to me that this was a sad and lonely man who decided (for reasons only known to him), to shut himself off from the world and his family. Granted, he could have had more savvy in the ways of surviving in the wilderness i.e. a SAS book on survival etc, but he chose to go it alone, perhaps to prove a point to his family, peers or whatever. In the end it would appear that he saw the folly of his 'adventure', by posting notes for help, in the hope that someone would come to his rescue - sadly nobody did! He was a young man trying to prove a point - he was saying 'Look at Me I Want to be Noticed'. And that's what we are all doing now - he has been noticed at last!

There is no CSI thing with 'the bus'. This was simply Chris on an adventure that went wrong due to his lack of awareness and understanding that we all need people and knowledge in order to survive. Let Chris R.I.P.

GoNorth
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby GoNorth » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:23 pm

alba143 wrote:How can any of you be sure what Chris was going through?


Not at all, of course. Many things being discussed here are more or less pure speculations. By the way, this here as well:

alba143 wrote:He was a young man trying to prove a point - he was saying 'Look at Me I Want to be Noticed'.


;)

bobenns
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:21 am

Re: Was Chris autistic?

Postby bobenns » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:55 am

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

Psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen and his colleagues at Cambridge's Autism Research Centre have created the Autism-Spectrum Quotient, or AQ, as a measure of the extent of autistic traits in adults. In the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives.

Lets compare.
I got 11
There is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life itself.


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