Ultimate freedom

Here you can discuss anything relating to the movie Into The Wild
flow for days
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:26 pm

Ultimate freedom

Postby flow for days » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:52 pm

Chris McCandless wanted to be one with nature, and to get away from the rest of the world. He wanted to find himself and be as free as any of the birds in the sky. He chose to not keep in contact with the world, and to live solely by his own rules and morals. He did not want anyone to know what he was eating, where he was staying, or even if he was doing anything illegal. I believe that he did find true happiness, and reached his goals and found out who he as a person was. Do you believe this was a selfish act? Or do you believe that it took true courage, and great character to do what Chris did, and ultimatley be free? ;)

muffinman127
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Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby muffinman127 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:57 pm

Re: Ultimate freedom

It definetly took Chris courage to leave society and seek "ultimate freedom", it also took smarts and preparation. He had a college degree to fall back on if his adventure didnt pan out as he thought it would and enough knowledge to survive. But, I don't think chris ever found "ultimate freedom" we was also tied down by something, wether it be foraging for berries to feed him self or building a place to sleep. He never had alot of time to sit around and do what ever he pleased, although, living off the land could of been what he was seeking and not separation from society. But to me ultimate freedom is when you have no chores, no neccesities to full fill and to me, when he gets that freedom is at the end of the movie when he passes away.

vincenzaharrison
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Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby vincenzaharrison » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:04 am

He wanted to find himself and be as free as any of the birds in the sky. He chose to not keep in contact with the world
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Gleedaniel13
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Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby Gleedaniel13 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:25 pm

Every people always wants a freedom and having at it will put you on your comfortable zone. Freedom is difficult to achieve before that is why we always value it as of now.
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festering boil
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WAY selfish

Postby festering boil » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:05 pm

True unabashed selfishness. Turning his back on his family like he did was a despicable act. He left them to wonder what became of him. He had every right to go off and disenfranchise himself from the world as he did. For as long as he liked. But in order to meet the code of 'Do unto others' he needed to inform his family, even by an initial letter of his plan. It could have been left behind or sent the day after he left. Im certain his family would've still wondered, but at least they could've had some baseline knowledge of his motivations. Im certain it would help me if my brother informed me he was disappearing in order to find himself, rather than just evaporating into thin air.

Anewanddifferentsun
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:57 am

Re: WAY selfish

Postby Anewanddifferentsun » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:03 am

festering boil wrote:True unabashed selfishness. Turning his back on his family like he did was a despicable act. He left them to wonder what became of him. He had every right to go off and disenfranchise himself from the world as he did. For as long as he liked. But in order to meet the code of 'Do unto others' he needed to inform his family, even by an initial letter of his plan. It could have been left behind or sent the day after he left. Im certain his family would've still wondered, but at least they could've had some baseline knowledge of his motivations. Im certain it would help me if my brother informed me he was disappearing in order to find himself, rather than just evaporating into thin air.


He informed them in a roundabout way, or could have, had his sister relayed the information. See page 64 in the book, "Into the Wild":
"Shortly before he disappeared (as in around the time he graduated and in a letter to his sister who was not living with her parents, meaning he had an address for her), Chris complained to Carine that their parents' behavior was 'so irrational, so oppressive, disrespectful and insulting that I finally passed my breaking point.' He went on: 'Since they won't ever take me seriously, for a few months after graduation I'm going to let them think they are right. I'm going to let them think that I'm coming around to see their side of things and that our relationship is stabilizing. And then, once the time is right, with one abrupt, swift action I'm going to completely knock them out of my life. I'm going to divorce them as my parents once and for all and never speak to either of those idiots again as long as I live. I'll be through with them once and for all, forever."
Of course, why didn't the sister disclose this to her parents after he disappeared? Remember, he said he was going to knock ONLY his parents out of this life. This didn't include his sister. She still had him. The movie, which falsely asserts she lived with her parents at the time Chris disappeared, suggests he cut all ties to his family. But he continued communicating with her after she left home. She chose not to let them know what was happening. Remember the scene in the movie when the parents are going through all the returned to sender mail? They ask her if she knew anything about this. She says, "He didn't say anything." But he certainly wrote about it to her. The two were getting even with mom and dad, and their vengeance was going as planned until Chris turned up dead in that bus. Of course, this begs the question: what was it their parents had done that warranted such cold-hearted retribution? Physical and verbal abuse while growing up is the allegation. Perhaps Carine will provide the details in her memoir. Perhaps others will step forward to corroborate her accusations, although it doesn't appear Chris mentioned physical abuse to any of his friends while growing up. It's odd that two of the people he was closest to after he disappeared (Wayne Westerberg, Jan Burress) have aligned themselves not with Carine but with Chris's parents. And Carine asked Krakauer to withhold the details about the family problems from the book. Why lie about it if it was true?

SteveSalmon
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:42 am

Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby SteveSalmon » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:06 am

Those are great points Anewanddifferentsun. Great points indeed. In fact, those have been in my notes as questions too for quite some time. Im surprised it's taken this long for these questions to arise from all of those who wonder about the holes that remain in this story. I continue to wonder about several things myself. The question of why Wayne and Jan keep their loyalties to Walt and Billie is one of the biggest puzzling factors about all of this for me. Jan was clear about pushing Chris to check in with his parents all the while paralleling his situation with her own son that she somehow and for some reason disconnected with. Jan siding with Chris' parents is somewhat understandable. But, Wayne? I don't get that at all. Why, knowing what he does about Chris' parents, would he even want to associate himself with them? What is the motivation to have an alliance with them and not Carine? Has there ever been an association with Carine and now is no longer there?

Here's something else that puzzles me; Carine and her father Walt restored a Corvette together and if you look at the timing of when that took place, that doesn't seem to fit the story either.

Another puzzler Im still struggling with is why Carine and her older brother Sam were the ones who flew to Alaska to pick up Chris' remains as stated in the book. One would wonder why the parents chose to forfeit that task? Walt seems to me like someone who would've made it his duty to go pick up his son's ashes, I would assume that Billie would've been right behind him.

Another question I have is if they (Chris' parents) were really concerned about his well being, why didn't they search for him themselves? Just how good was that private detective who was supposedly hired to find Chris? After all, didn't Chris use the Virginia address several times to get work? Maybe they knew damn well what Chris was up to and maybe that donation to OXFAM was the final straw for THEM. Perhaps they themselves decided to cut ties with Chris.

If YOU knew Chris McCandless and are reading this right now and wouldn't mind chatting about it, please feel free to get in touch. You can join this forum and once you do, you can click my name and private message me anytime. You can post as a guest too and just leave a way to get ahold of you. I'd love to hear from anyone but, especially those that worked with Chris at McDonalds and/or the Steak house in Las Vegas. Listen, if you worked with Chris McCandless anywhere, please get in touch or post here and tell us about it.
It would be great to hear from Gail Borah and/or her son too. I know several folks who are linked in one way or another to this story have been reading this forum and my stuff for several years. I'd say it's time to reach out and put your two cents in. Thanks in advance.

~Steve Salmon

nickparis
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby nickparis » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:07 pm

Great post Steve, The story continues to intrigue and inspire me. I have many of my own questions about his journey (ill sit and wait for yours to be answered first!)

I am always hoping that someone with some new information may come forward. Or for Ron Lamothe to discus further some of the things he has hinted about before.

Best to all,

Nick Paris

fredmerlin
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby fredmerlin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:21 pm

I THINK what was meant about "Shortly before he disappeared" ...refers to 2 summers prior to Chris' leaving after graduating college. He found out that when he was born, his father was still legally married to his first wife. I think that for 2 years, Chris had this festering wound. All the other childhood feelings of fear, anger and displacement festered during this time, with the reality of domestic abuse and the focus (for the 'rents) on monetary and social privilege. We should define 'physical abuse', also...what was acceptable 'childhood discipline' back then, can be considered 'domestic abuse' nowadays. We are still unclear as to WHEN Carine flew the coop. As far as the alignments with the parents, and Wayne and Jan, I think that initially they were just giving up what they knew about Chris' last interactions on this earth. Things may have evolved into, again, monetary values overriding what is really important. I think that Jan, being a mom, and being separated from her son, also, really bonded her to at least the mom, here. Also, with Carine wanting to omit certain family problems from the story...really, who ever does want to air the dirty laundry? The objective, initially, was to tell Chris' story. We really don't know how deep we need to dig into the past to learn from others lives. It is very painful to be 'out there', no doubt...look at the attitude already emerging from the soon to be published Memoir. I feel the critics coming out. We all need to allow Carine, and others tell their stories as THEY have lived it. Perceptions.

As far as Carine and Sam going to get Chris from Alaska, who really knows what the family dynamic was at that time. Maybe the parents were so devastated that they couldn't bear to go. Sometimes offspring steamroll, too, taking control of a situation that others are frozen by. It's all really too bad...

SteveSalmon
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:42 am

Re: Ultimate freedom

Postby SteveSalmon » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:32 pm

fredmerlin wrote:I THINK what was meant about "Shortly before he disappeared" ...refers to 2 summers prior to Chris' leaving after graduating college.

Hmm I wouldn't say that was "shortly after" though.


fredmerlin wrote: He found out that when he was born, his father was still legally married to his first wife.

As far as I remember though, and according to the pictures, they got together as a big group all the time, were sometimes made to compete against each other, and all the while knew exactly how they all fit into the family. Quinne McCandless was born in between Chris and Carine and there is yet another family member named Shannon who is the youngest of all eight of them from what I have read.


fredmerlin wrote: Also, with Carine wanting to omit certain family problems from the story...really, who ever does want to air the dirty laundry? The objective, initially, was to tell Chris' story.

That's a fine point Fredmerlin. I would agree that there lies a delicate fine line between telling Chris' story and getting off subject with other facts. I think that is probably part of what drives Carine today, she seems to me that she wants to get the message out there that child abuse has a lot to do with the story. More so than what their parents care to admit. There's a great video on youtube of her lecture at a Virginia college and the reactions to it from staff and attendees.

Hey, Im well aware that we all make mistakes, and Im all for rebuilding bridges (with cooperation), but, lying for the sake of profit bothers me. The fact that stubbornness has a lot to do with the divide in their family is sad too. What's worse is, it's deliberate. Walt and Billie choose not to have a place in AT LEAST their grandchildren's lives. From what I have read online, they have a grandson that is battling cancer and a granddaughter that has mild down syndrome and yet would rather live in their bubble of lies rather than make much needed and long overdue peace among their children.

But, what do I know, Im just another bystander to this story looking in as everyone else is. My own parallels are what get me most I suppose. I look back on my life and I see lots of them. I look at my life now and I still see a few. The biggest challenge for me is to look at this story through my eyes as a parent. I could tell you that with my children, I would never let another soul get away with hurting them and I certainly wouldn't sink to a level so low to be responsible for their pain in any shape or form. Children are a gift. I feel lucky to be the father to my children and I will never understand, nor have respect for, any parent who chooses to harm or walk away from theirs for any reason.

Ps,
Thank you NickParis.

~Steve Salmon
Last edited by SteveSalmon on Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.


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