IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Here you can discuss anything related to Christopher McCandless.
SteveSalmon
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:42 am

IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby SteveSalmon » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:48 pm

~SS
Last edited by SteveSalmon on Thu May 03, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ellisd
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:01 pm
Location: central/upsate New York
Contact:

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby ellisd » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:20 am

moved on from this subject aswell.
Last edited by ellisd on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

ellisd
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:01 pm
Location: central/upsate New York
Contact:

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby ellisd » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:40 am

-
Last edited by ellisd on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

SteveSalmon
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:42 am

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby SteveSalmon » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:44 am

~SS
Last edited by SteveSalmon on Thu May 03, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GoNorth
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby GoNorth » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:32 pm

Thanks for opening this thread.

SteveSalmon wrote:As reported in the book, Chris had left two notes. One was a goodbye note and the other an SOS note. Both of these notes were among his possessions and close to his body, most importantly, both had his real name at the end of them.


As far as I understood, the name was only mentionend at the end of the SOS-note, not on the good-bye-note. But that's just a detail.


SteveSalmon wrote: Perhaps why the backpack was overlooked? The troopers did take Chris' camera with 5 rolls of exposed film, the SOS note, and a diary written in a field guide.


As I already wrote in the other thread (http://www.christophermccandless.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3110), I don't think that the backpack was overlooked, but that they rather took only the important things and left the rest in the bus, including some of his clothes and so on.
But of course, this still does not explain why Forsberg took the backpack away.

SteveSalmon wrote: According to the very next paragraph, an autopsy was performed and the remains were so badly decomposed that it was impossible to determine exactly when McCandless had died.


This is one of the things that I find a bit confusing. At the autopsy, considering the degree of decomposition, they guessed he died already in July. The date August 18 was only found by evaluating his notes. Is it possible that after hardly 3 weeks a body can have reached the state of decomposition that would "normally" be reached after about 6 weeks or more?

GoNorth
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby GoNorth » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:37 am

Some further thoughts:

SteveSalmon wrote:There was no clear reason for his death. Starvation was the best guess due to it's high probability. Best guess.


A bit more than a guess, however. Here are the facts:
- The photos he took clearly prove his substantial weight loss over the weeks and months "in the wild", ending with the last pictures of him waving and holding the good-bye-note (look at his legs).
- When the body was found, it weighed 67 pounds and the estimated weight at his death was 83 pounds. (http://foragersharvest.com/into-the-wild-and-other-poisonous-plant-fables/) No injuries or poison were found at the autopsy.
- His own notes also indicate his weakness due to lack of food.
At that point, death by starvation was inevitable.

Conclusion: IF whatever crime was committed (which I doubt), it must have been a long time before Chris died. And if he had been injured (as Lamothe suspects due to the strange looking sleeve on that photo - which must have been taken rather in the earlier time at the bus, as he still looks healthy and well nourished - , but this is just an idea that has never been proven, and Chris didn't mention anything in his notes), this injury might have kept him from getting more food or from walking out or whatever, but probably not for long, because many of the photos (of which we still only know a certain part) show him holding his rifle or some prey with the right hand. And the SOS-note, where he mentioned being "injured", was written so long after the photo in front of the bus was obviously taken, that it seems rather impossible that it's the same injury. Because otherwise he would not have been able to hunt in the meantime and something would probably have been found at the autopsy.
So either this thing he mentioned on the SOS-note was a very small injury or he just meant his general bad condition and didn't find a better word than "injured" to explain it (remember that he was already very weak by then). But it might also be that he just made it up in order to maximize the chances that a "possible visitor" might wait to save him. I know, Lamothe states that this would not fit to Chris's personality but I totally disagree as he had been inventing other things in order to deal with difficult situations before, so why not here, in serious danger of life.

bobenns
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:21 am

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby bobenns » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:29 am

My 2 cents worth.

As far as the troopers leaving the back pack and other stuff behind. Well they were there to collect a body and see if it looked like a crime scene. They came on a chopper that can only carry so much weight. How many people were on the plane? Two, three? A pilot? Was one of them a pilot? Anyway it seems to me they might have not wanted to carry any extra weight. The back pack may not have looked any more important than boots or clothing to them once they gave it the once over.

Forsberg is pretty typical of the kind of person you find living semi isolated in such a remote northern area. He's lived there all his life, knows the whole area like the back of his hand and here some young fool shows up, starves to death and becomes famous, just like that. Pissed him right off. Foresbergs been there his whole life and nobody gives a shit. Isolation does dull the intellect. I think Foresberg is somewhat jealous of Chris, but only after the fact of his notoriety, not while he was there.

When people leave their stuff laying out there , somebody else will come along and take it. Foresberg thinks that Chris ransacked his cabin, but again that's just because Chris became famous for something as foolish as starving out there when Foresberg has been out there a thousand times and lived to tell about it. Its just the kind of jealousy you get with people like him. Foresberg is no detective!

Sure Foresberg went and checked the bus out eventually after the news about Chris. Foresberg probably feels that he has personal entitlement to the whole place out there. Not many people bothered to go out there other than to hunt, it was kind of a wasteland then. But now with the McCandless story its a tourist attraction.

I think if Foresberg had met Chris it would be recorded in the diary. It would have been a major event. Foresberg would have helped Chris and shown him a thing or two about survival out there I'm sure. Probably would have even brought him out some supplies. He's very friendly in the documentary, ready to jump on the 4 wheelers and go now.

Something about northern people that I know from having grown up in the north. You help anybody out there who needs it. Its an unwritten rule of life. Your life may well depend on the only person who comes by. Even people you wouldn't talk to in town. If you see them out in the bush, in trouble you just help. Its your duty and everyone does it automatically. I've been pulled out of the ditch in my teens on a remote bush road in Northern Ontario by a Frenchman that never spoke a word of English and cursed us in French the whole time. we got the drift of what he was saying. "You stupid English bastards are going to die out here."

You may be up some river in your boat and there is someone with a broken propeller or motor. You tow them back, they don't have to ask you. You do it because you are the one who showed up. I doubt very much that Foresberg had a run in with Chris. If he did, he would be known for that locally. Known as a crazy guy to watch out for in the bush. I don't think that's the case at all.

I think the speculation about the arm is a lot closer to the truth. Chris may have hurt his arm trying to clear trails. He had this thing about making hunting trails. What happens when you hack and chop all day long at brush. Tennis elbow happens. Once it starts if you keep abusing it you end up losing the use of the arm for a long time. I know as I did it to myself clearing brush at a campsite without the proper tools. The elbow started to hurt and I ignored it as I wanted that brush removed so I would have a view of the lake. I ended up piratically crippled, unable to use the arm for months. Every little thing I did with it caused more pain. I could see that happening to Chris and he'd be trying to do everything with just one arm.

Chris had to work very hard, all day, every day to try and feed himself and stay warm. No axe or buck saw to cut firewood. After a few weeks he would be walking far to find loose wood to carry back. He would be trying break off pieces to bring back, carrying heavy pieces a long way. He could hurt himself a hundred different ways. He weighed around 85 lb. Foresberg didn't do that to him either.

I really don't think its right or fair to be accusing Foresberg of anything here on this forum. Discuss possibilities is one thing, but the guy isn't here to defend himself. He's still alive up there I assume. Someone will tell him about this and it will be upsetting. Taking home some stuff left behind by a dead guy is really not so unusual up in that country. Somebody may as well use it. The bus is no shrine to the locals. Its just a rusty old hulk laying out there to most of them. Now if someone local had died there, it would have local folklore. To them the outsiders who come to the bus are just weird.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Bob
There is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life itself.

Ascetic
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby Ascetic » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:16 am

bobenns wrote:I really don't think its right or fair to be accusing Foresberg of anything here on this forum.


I agree. Before contriving theories and making accusations, maybe someone should go to Forsberg's Panoramio site, contact him, and invite him to come here and answer questions. Maybe he could explain some things. There's a lot we don't know.

For God's sake, some people are bordering on accusing this man of murder.

That's a serious thing.

GoNorth
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby GoNorth » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:55 am

bobenns wrote:I think the speculation about the arm is a lot closer to the truth. Chris may have hurt his arm trying to clear trails. He had this thing about making hunting trails. What happens when you hack and chop all day long at brush. Tennis elbow happens. Once it starts if you keep abusing it you end up losing the use of the arm for a long time. I know as I did it to myself clearing brush at a campsite without the proper tools. The elbow started to hurt and I ignored it as I wanted that brush removed so I would have a view of the lake. I ended up piratically crippled, unable to use the arm for months. Every little thing I did with it caused more pain. I could see that happening to Chris and he'd be trying to do everything with just one arm.



Perhaps, but it still seems strange that he didn't note this at all, in case it is true. And again, the photos show that he used both arms, so nothing indicates that he could have had serious problems using one arm over a longer period.

But thanks for your post anyway. For the potential crime theory, I principally agree with what you wrote.

bobenns
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:21 am

Re: IS THERE MORE TO THE CHRISTOPHER MCCANDLESS STORY???

Postby bobenns » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:20 pm

GoNorth wrote:
bobenns wrote:I think the speculation about the arm is a lot closer to the truth. Chris may have hurt his arm trying to clear trails. He had this thing about making hunting trails. What happens when you hack and chop all day long at brush. Tennis elbow happens. Once it starts if you keep abusing it you end up losing the use of the arm for a long time. I know as I did it to myself clearing brush at a campsite without the proper tools. The elbow started to hurt and I ignored it as I wanted that brush removed so I would have a view of the lake. I ended up piratically crippled, unable to use the arm for months. Every little thing I did with it caused more pain. I could see that happening to Chris and he'd be trying to do everything with just one arm.



Perhaps, but it still seems strange that he didn't note this at all, in case it is true. And again, the photos show that he used both arms, so nothing indicates that he could have had serious problems using one arm over a longer period.

But thanks for your post anyway. For the potential crime theory, I principally agree with what you wrote.


A lot of his journal entries are just two words. An injury something like what I described would be something he would be reminded of daily and no need to enter in his dairy. An inflamed tendon is really nasty after a while as you keep aggravating it. You can still do some things with it, but certain movements tweak it. Mine got to the point where I finally could not use the arm at all, it was painful all the time and I finally went and got a cortisone shot. Its the kind of soft tissue injury that won't show up in an autopsy of a decomposed body, if they would even look very hard for that sort of injury. I'm not saying he had the same exact injury, but something of that nature is quite possible. It could have been a sprain, torn ligament or muscle. Basically any soft tissue injury that you just keep aggravating. The only cure for these things is rest, something he couldn't afford. Survival of the fittest!

His brief entries look to me to be more like reminders for him of certain episodes for expanding on later. He was involved in journalism at school and obviously had also written a lot of essays etc through those years. So I find it strange that his journal is so sparse at the bus given the amount of time he had for reflection. But he didn't bother to even take a blank notebook.
There is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life itself.


Return to “Discussions on Chris”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests